I loled. They're all fucking puppets anyways, whoever wins, we're all fucking doomed regardless. Whoever here is a fellow Amerifag like me, well, I'll see you down in the FEMA concentration camps in the southwest soon enough.

Fuck, I'd vote for Palin if she performed contortionism live at one of the debates.

> if she performed contortionism live at one of the debates

"If"? Are we watching the same debate here? They're both doing it.

I agree with >>2 But I'm voting for McCain just to piss off all the liberals I know.

>>4

I honestly can't imagine that anyone would seriously want the position this time around. Think about it - they are inheriting an almost 10 trillion dollar debt that at this point cannot realistically ever be paid back, will probably have to re-instate the draft, the true death of the US Dollar as the world's Reserve Currency, unprecedented unemployment, the list goes on....

Plus, whichever figurehead the real powers that be choose is going to HAVE TO tell the American public about Peak Oil at some point. Mexico is set to stop exporting completely in 2010. They are our second largest supplier, under Canada. We are FUCKED. So, SO FUCKED. It will be truly horrifying to say the very least.

I know I wouldn't want the job.

>>5

They want the position because they've either convinced them self that they can fix it or are just power hungry.

I haven't bothered to pay much attention to the election but I know enough to say that neither side provides a real solution. Just your typical BS rhetoric.

It's sad really, to watch my nation go down the drain. But then again, shit happens.You just gotta hold your breath and hope for the best.

>>6

>I know enough to say that neither side provides a real solution. Just your typical BS rhetoric.

Good to know that you are able to think critically. That ability is probably more important than just about any other at this point in history.

The thing of it is, they don't have any solutions, because there aren't any logical, rational solutions. What can we do about the fact that less than half the recoverable oil in the world remains? What can we do about the fact that we have drastically overshot the carrying capacity of Earth? Millions, perhaps billions will likely perish over the next couple of decades. Without some zero-hour miracle tech that can be scaled up in less than five years... the party is over.

The debates & the furor surrounding the elections sure are doing a great job of obscuring the really important news/facts from John Q. Fatbody, no? Well, at least until Dancing With The Stars comes on.

>You just gotta hold your breath and hope for the best.

We may seriously want to consider doing that breath-holding inside a fortified bunker.

http://www.mnweekly.ru/news/20080124/55305669.html

(My apologies. I've been hitting the Doomer forums hard tonight. </rant>)

It's funny how many Americans are solely focussing on "peak oil". From the outside, it may look like sophisticated, forward looking thinking. In fact it's just their deeply rooted fear of rising gas prices.

Did you know we are running out of nuclear fuel as well?

>>8

Yes, I have studied the issue of energy depletion for almost five years. You are correct - Uranium is indeed finite, and if nuclear energy is heavily ramped up (as it will likely have to be, just to keep the lights on, and not freeze to death), it too will disappear in less than 100 years. Maybe less than that. The same goes for coal if its use skyrockets (it will).

Oil is so important (focused on), because without it, how do you fly a plane? How do you create the more than 200 byproducts (plastics, etc) without it? Last but not least in any way, the issue of transportation. The problem with the continental United States is that it is so spread out - it was created with the mindset that petroleum would always be cheap and abundant.

Then there is the issue of agriculture. Without massive fossil fuel inputs, it simply won't work. It takes (on average) 10 calories of energy to create 1 calorie of food energy. Heavy farming machinery needs petrol or it doesn't run. Massive amounts of now non-arable land (over fertilized for years) needs fertilizer (natural gas based), or crops simply will not grow.

Oil is so important because without it, we don't eat. We can't travel long distances. Modern medicine cannot function. Construction of just about everything becomes nearly impossible. The implications are absolutely enormous. It truly is a crisis on a scale our species has never experienced before, and never will again.

My apologies for ranting and derailing this thread.

>Oil is so important (focused on), because without it, how do you fly a plane? How do you create the more than 200 byproducts (plastics, etc) without it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_process

>The problem with the continental United States is that it is so spread out - it was created with the mindset that petroleum would always be cheap and abundant.

People live in remote locations because that is how they could afford the luxery of owning a big house. They may have to change their way of thinking.

Any denizen from New York or any bigger European city can tell you that it is perfectly possible to lead a happy live without owning a car.

>Then there is the issue of agriculture. Without massive fossil fuel inputs, it simply won't work.

Simple: Food with high energy requirements such as beef will get less affordable.

Currently 1% of the worlds energy supply is used for fertilizer production which sustains 40% of the worlds population, there is still plenty of margin.

>Oil is so important because without it, we don't eat.

We don't need oil, we need energy.

>>10

>Fischer-Tropsch

This process, while very beneficial, will only alleviate a small fraction of the problem. The issue here is scalability. The world is maxing out now at ~87 billion barrels a day of production. The worldwide depletion rate is estimated at more or less 3% per year. Can this process be scaled up to meet that drop in supply (while demand continues to increase)? Can it be done without horribly damaging & poisoning the enviroment (have a look at China)?

>People live in remote locations because that is how they could afford the luxery of owning a big house. They may have to change their way of thinking.

I agree; the suburbs are done for and will probably wind up abandoned. But these new population centers aren't being built, so by the time things get really bad (by mid-2010), a LOT of people simply won't have anywhere to go...

>Simple: Food with high energy requirements such as beef will get less affordable.

This is in the short term. Long term will be far, far worse. I do agree that meat is going to become a luxury for only the rich before long.

>Currently 1% of the worlds energy supply is used for fertilizer production which sustains 40% of the worlds population, there is still plenty of margin.

Again, short term we'll be alright, long term it gets UGLY. Natural gas is facing the same massive depletion rates as petroleum, which I'm sure you know.

>We don't need oil, we need energy.

What I meant was, without oil, modern agriculture on the scale we use now is impossible. I've yet to see large farming equipment that runs on anything besides petroleum.

I hope I am not coming across as argumentative, Anonymous, because you do bring up good points, and you definitely have educated yourself on the subject. There are solutions to many of these problems that need implementation as soon as possible to avoid catastrophe.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT THE F--KING POWERS THAT BE AREN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT COVERING THEIR OWN ASSES.

We can probably agree on that point.

>>5
lol federal reserve

>>9
I think the real problem here is regardless of what we do all these solutions are temporary. So if you wanna "possibly" survive until the core dies we have to completely abandon civilization all together.

>>13

Only too true. I personally believe we will consume all we can, we will burn the world in order to continue the status quo for as long as possible. But in the end, we'll only be moving backwards as far as technology is concerned. It will happen. This is actually "Peak Civilization".

I am more than a little envious of the Amish at this point. Though, they'll be far from safe themselves.

"...and the meek shall inherit the Earth..."

So do we all think "Hole In The Wall" is good show or not?

It's okay, wish posters. When society collapses and you are all left to fend for yourself without your silly social security, food stamps, and welfare cheques, I will graciously allow you to farm my land for me under my watchful protection. You will be my tenant farmers.

>>16
hehe you make it sound like none of us can survive.

>>16

Normally I have no problem placating your hyper-inflated ego, wB, but this time I think you might be a bit off the mark. You see, Canada will (unfortunately) be raped and ravaged in the final, desperate resource grab. Fresh water, oil, nat gas, and oil shale. Have you seen pictures of the Oil Shale operation up in Alberta? It's an absolute environmental nightmare.

http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/photos/index.cfm

Make no mistake, you are hardly immune from this situation. Canada is one of the few (if not the only) nation on the planet that has not yet reached its oil production peak (projected at 2016, from what I've read). When the rest of the world runs out... they'll be coming.

As far as your dream farm is concerned, SpookyHat and myself will have already been drafted to fight in the aforementioned resource grab (AKA WWIII), so I regret to inform you that our services will be unavailable. Looks like Camel's cat will have to pull the plow.

Good luck.

>>17

Some will. Mostly the top 1% of the richest people on Earth, government officials, and people living on remote islands. Us? We're likely borked.

>>18
by what? haven't you ever ate a frog before?

I mean the immediate problem.

>>18

>Oil Shale operation up in Alberta?

Yeah, the last frontier known to man. Forget the pussies in Iraq, this is where boys get turned into men. Wb should apply there. I hear they also pay really well.

Looks healthy

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=fort+mcmurray,+alberta&ie=UTF8&ll=56.902629,-111.435013&spn=0.31871,0.837708&t=h&z=11

>>18 Normally I have no problem placating your hyper-inflated ego, wB

Could you be persuaded to stop doing that?

>>18
Well, considering I'm an American collaborator in the first place I won't really mind, now will I? They tell me if I translate Canadian in league with their forces for 12 months they'll give me citizenship.

Oh wait, Jay treaty lol. Looks like I can just come over whenever I want.

I've seen pictures of both you and Spookyhat. I have doubts as to your suitability for military service. I mean, look a schwilliam. That guy was in good shape and he only ended up as a pogue. Given your substance problems, you'll likely go into a coma once your marijuana addiction comes full circle and wake up sewing potatoes or whatever. Spookyhat, given his weight, will likely come begging to my fortified manor house for scraps once the 7-11 he had claimed runs out of candy near the end of the first season.

>>20
The rigs are where basically every 20 year old Canadian in Manitoba goes to work. Then they come back the next year disappointed at how that all turned out and find decent jobs.

>>23
To think I need you to survive... HA!
go back to painting your toenails Tony... I think I can manage.

K, lets move on from resource depletion and focus on a more pressing, immediate issue, shall we?

*What you are witnessing is America being reorganised into a machine that will remove any remaining wealth you have. Thats what America is as outlandish as it may sound to you, just a big collections corporation that manages its population to pay its creditors..

Now the creditors are pissed. Your leaders have been lining their pockets with their private corporations, and not taking care of business, not paying what they owe, trying to borrow yet more..

You better hope this works, because while you are busy thinking you are all that and how great America is Russia, China, South America, Syria, North Korea, Pakistan and many other countries have been turning into one big military alliance, and now control over 90% of the worlds resources..

Your leaders will now use this country to pay their friggin bills or America will be destroyed. Its really that simple..

You had better hope it works..

But it probably wont for long. Understand that this money dosnt just come out of nowhere (well, actually it can, they can just fire up the presses and kill the dollar, and kill us all). Others, think people, mostly foreign people have to buy the bonds. What if they dont?? Its not like they are being consulted or anything...

Why would they?? Dont you think they may be nervous bailing out a bankrupt nation with more loans?? The only thing they will accept is the condition, soon to be imposed, that slaves your ass with draconian taxes to pay for this...

This will be done under the guise of emergency powers, and a staged Islamic attack...

If it works you will live, poor, taxed to every extent you can bear, but live. If not you, and this entire nation of deadbeats will be destroyed. The world will demand it. Its just too easy to arrange, all it takes is a Commander in Chief to sell you out, and what do you really make of your current Commander in Chief on his knees kissing another mans ring??

Dont laugh, its very possible, remember that missing 2.3 trillion dollars that was forgot about in the 9-11 hysteria?? Thats what bought off Soviet leaders of import, what allowed us to rape the USSR.. Its just too easy to arrange, just one corrupt Commander in Chief and America gets vaporized....

Better hope it works, or be ready for full on nuclear attack... as this is what is to come.*

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,25804.45.html

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081002/117389135.html

It was nice knowing you all.

http://www.doomers.us

Are you sure this is an unbiased, objective source?

I loled when I saw the ads for vegetable seeds.

>>25
in many aspects you're right but specifics are never good for prophecies. Truth is we don't know how it will all go down. Maybe we should start fucking doing our jobs as goddamn citizens and keeping this damn shithole in check. But everyone tells me I'm crazy when I say that. That that's youth talking.
Well... all I can say is kill a cop, banker or politician for your country. That's patriotism right there.

>>24

The post I quoted was of course speculation, but quite frankly the world seems to be gearing up for war... I find it hard to believe something incredibly nasty isn't going to happen.

If I'm wrong about all of this, I'll be the first one to admit it and be rapturously overjoyed to an extent I've never before reached in my life.

>>25

>Maybe we should start fucking doing our jobs as goddamn citizens and keeping this damn shithole in check.

Too late - they're ready for that.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pictures-lego-block-prison-cells-readied-in-utah.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

>>28

From the Army Times article:

>The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

>Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

>They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

>>25

>IN OTHER WORDS, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT THE F--KING POWERS THAT BE AREN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT COVERING THEIR OWN ASSES.

They are doing something. This was passed along with the $700B bailout:

http://seia.org/cs/news_detail?pressrelease.id=217